normal Rules Update: Arch Caster

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24 Jan 2012 21:39 #31 by GJSchaller (GJSchaller)
Replied by GJSchaller (GJSchaller) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
One of the major goals behind the Higher List revisions was to cut out a lot of redundant text that was already in the Core Rules - why repeat it in three places, and then miss one when the rule changes? (Trust me, as the one updating them, I don't want to have to deal with that.... ;) )

The core rule that spells cannot be stacked is still there - it's not unique to Valence. Because there's no exception listed for Valence... it still stands.

As such, Enchanted Armor is a one-time deal at 30 AP for a fixed point cost - it cannot be higher or lower.


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24 Jan 2012 22:13 #32 by Chris G. (Cross)
Replied by Chris G. (Cross) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Is Enchanted Armor intended to be "Invoked" when the points are desired via the Latent tag?



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24 Jan 2012 22:16 #33 by GJSchaller (GJSchaller)
Replied by GJSchaller (GJSchaller) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
I'm 90% sure that was another C&P error. I either need more sleep... or more coffee. Not sure which yet.

(It shouldn't be latent.)


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24 Jan 2012 23:09 #34 by Chris G. (Cross)
Replied by Chris G. (Cross) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Can Arch Caster abilities be used with Scholar 1st Ranks if you happen to be say a Druid Scholar Arch Caster... for instance can you learn Earthen Armor from Scholar then Spellsurge Earthen Armor yourself?



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25 Jan 2012 00:18 #35 by Erdrick (Erdrick)
Replied by Erdrick (Erdrick) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster

Lucas R. Brand wrote: Can Arch Caster abilities be used with Scholar 1st Ranks if you happen to be say a Druid Scholar Arch Caster... for instance can you learn Earthen Armor from Scholar then Spellsurge Earthen Armor yourself?


I answered this earlier in the thread. At the moment I am going to say no. Unless the abilities you are using are learned from a list that has access to the arch caster list you cannot use arch caster abilities to augment them. So Druid/Priest Wild mages cannot arch caster their wild mage spells, and any other caster scholars cannot arch caster up their scholar abilities.

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25 Jan 2012 00:29 #36 by Chris G. (Cross)
Replied by Chris G. (Cross) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Whoops, sorry I missed that post. My bad.



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25 Jan 2012 04:16 #37 by geezer (geezer)
Replied by geezer (geezer) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
My opinion is (for what it is worth) introducing this change (and it is pretty massive) the week of an Event and having it be live is a bad idea. There are still tons of questions to be asked and answered, along with decisions as to which paths to take, which should not be entered without some serious thought.

Left unanswered is the matter of grandfathering items, which for some reason, really concerns me. Is an item that conferred 110 points of Valance armor changed? Same, as others asked, about items containing Resist.

An easy question <<5) Any existing gems over 50 points in value are reduced to 50 points, not their new ratio. No, they are not grandfathered.>> In that case with those who possess such gems be reimbursed for the gold spent to acquire them, i.e., a 100 GP gem is now worth 50?

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25 Jan 2012 04:30 - 25 Jan 2012 04:32 #38 by Chris G. (Cross)
Replied by Chris G. (Cross) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Ritual of The Amulet – Cap of 50, 1 point per 2 GP value of Gem. Any existing gems over 50 points in value are reduced to 50 points, not their new ratio.
Ritual of Storing – Cap of 50, 1 point per 2 GP value of Gem. Any existing gems over 50 points in value are reduced to 50 points, not their new ratio.

vs


Ritual of Storing
Magic Points: 5 Points
Duration: 1 Event

This ritual enhances a gem or crystal so that specific Power Points may be stored within it. The gem or crystal may be attached to an item such as a necklace or a ring. The gem may only hold points from one class that will be determined by the sorcerer at the time of casting of the ritual. These points may be used any time that event by any caster that can use the specific points stored. The sorcerer may enhance the gem/crystal to hold up to two points for every gold piece value of the gem and up to two points maximum for every level of the caster of the ritual. The gem starts off with the maximum amount of points it can hold.

The points may be stored in the gem at any time, including multiple times throughout the event, with a maximum of only one storing per tag cycle. A donor only has to volunteer transfer their power into the gem by touching it and stating the number of points to be transferred. Any attempt to take the points from an unconscious or dominated character will fail. A character may only have one of these items on their person at a time. While the enchantment exists on this item it is defined as magical and is immune to being shattered, blaster or otherwise destroyed.

Ritual of the Amulet
Magic Points: 10 Points, and 1 Sorcery Ritual Point
Components Rare: 1 Meteoric chain
Duration: 6 Events

This ritual enhances a gem or crystal so that specific Power Points may be stored within it. The gem may only hold points from one class that will be determined by the sorcerer at the time of casting of the ritual. For every two points that are expended one will be stored into the amulet. The points used from the amulet will regenerate at the beginning of the period, and may be used by any caster that can use the specific points stored. The amulet starts off empty and without any points stored within.

The sorcerer may enchant the amulet to hold up to two points for every gold piece value of the item and can embed up to one point maximum for every level of the caster of the ritual. Should the points that are to be embedded not be of the sphere of the sorcerer, a donor will be needed. These points may only be given voluntarily. Any attempt to take the points from an unconscious or dominated character will fail. A character may only have one of these items on their person at a time. While the enchantment exists on this item it is defined as magical and is immune to being shattered, blaster or otherwise destroyed. If this ritual is made permanent the power points will not be drained by the source.

---

The math does not change the quality of gem required to max out a Gem.

1 point per 2 gold worth of a gem means that to have a 50FP Ritual of the Amulet, you require a 100 gold Gem. So you are still getting the maximum value of your 100 gold Gem. Your 100 GP gem is still worth 100 GP, if it were worth 50 GP then you could only enchant it to 25FP.

---

Also the design for replacing items with Valance abilities is in the first post.

New: Ritual of Higher Embedding – The ability to embed one lower list spell and one Valence spell has been changed to allow the caster to embed three fourth rank spells. Items with Valence spells in them should be altered to replace the spell with two additional fourth rank spells.

Old: Ritual of High Embedding
Magic Points: 13 Points, plus 2 Sorcery Ritual Points per spell embedded
Components Rare: 1 Heart from a Valance Mage
Duration: 6 Events

This ritual allows the caster to embed one low magic spell up to fourth rank into an item, and one Valance Spell. These spell can be invoked once per period. If the spell is embedded into a weapon it will not swing for magic.

The difference is that instead of one 4th rank low magic and one valance spell, you now get three 4th rank low magic.



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Last edit: 25 Jan 2012 04:32 by Chris G. (Cross).

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25 Jan 2012 04:37 #39 by Aleister (Aleister)
Replied by Aleister (Aleister) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
The only way to make that post more legit is to add quotes.

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25 Jan 2012 04:45 #40 by Bladesworn (Bladesworn)
Replied by Bladesworn (Bladesworn) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
The New Master Warrior list was debuted on December 14th. The character with this change won't go live till this weekend. The same time buffer should be used for Arch Caster.

As for grandfathering, that's something that goes against the entire reason why these changes look to be putting into place. Seems like the changes greatly vary the older players who have high level characters & higher lists. It helps shake things up as well as make sure not everyone is a cookie cutter master-whatever with tons of abilities. This change to have people pick & choose shows no 1 person can be master of everything. I like that. If we allowed old items to be grandfathered, then those items are breaking the balance these changes are making.

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25 Jan 2012 05:38 #41 by geezer (geezer)
Replied by geezer (geezer) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
I will wait for a Rules Marshal to answer, Paul.
If items are not grandfathered, other questions arise:
Do the players affected have the gold/.SPs refunded? As an example, last year's auction had an item that has Aegis, which confers three resists without having to invoke them.

As my other questions hinge of the grandfathering of existing items, I will hold off on them.

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25 Jan 2012 08:37 #42 by Erdrick (Erdrick)
Replied by Erdrick (Erdrick) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster

geezer wrote: My opinion is (for what it is worth) introducing this change (and it is pretty massive) the week of an Event and having it be live is a bad idea. There are still tons of questions to be asked and answered, along with decisions as to which paths to take, which should not be entered without some serious thought.


If you have questions then ask them.

Left unanswered is the matter of grandfathering items, which for some reason, really concerns me. Is an item that conferred 110 points of Valance armor changed? Same, as others asked, about items containing Resist.

Since it is Wednesday and there has been no official post yet by James or Jon I am going to address this temporarily. This only applies for this event.
For this event follow the chart below.
1) If the ability in your item no longer exists you will abide by the old rules. Aka Absorption/Reflect
2) If the ability exists but now has a new form you will conform to the new effect. So all negates are now not superior, but now work on pretty much every casted effect. Also Valence armor is capped at 30 regardless of its previous cap.

You do not need to get your items updated for this event. We will address this all at a later point.

An easy question <<5) Any existing gems over 50 points in value are reduced to 50 points, not their new ratio. No, they are not grandfathered.>> In that case with those who possess such gems be reimbursed for the gold spent to acquire them, i.e., a 100 GP gem is now worth 50?

As Chris has stated the ratio was changed and in most cases you should still get most of your bang for your buck for them. If you are actually short changed by some method just keep it in mind for the great item rewrite of 2012 and it will be addressed then.

The New Master Warrior list was debuted on December 14th. The character with this change won't go live till this weekend. The same time buffer should be used for Arch Caster.

With the superior change in effect casters (non mages mostly) were basically going to be in a bad spot compared to most of the other classes. Pushing this out fast is the best way to make sure a very large portion of the game isn't left behind. I do very much wish we could have gotten this out earlier but I do feel confident that this list is about as balanced as we'll get short of testing it.

As my other questions hinge of the grandfathering of existing items, I will hold off on them.

The basic answer for right now is they are grandfathered for this event based off the rules posted above. Details as to what will happen after this event will follow as time permits.

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25 Jan 2012 08:49 #43 by Erdrick (Erdrick)
Replied by Erdrick (Erdrick) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Also in response to earlier posts the following updates will be made to the list.

Double Power cannot be used on Valence abilities (Namely Valence Armor)
Double Power does not affect Soaks or Thresholds.

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25 Jan 2012 09:19 #44 by Gallion (Gallion)
Replied by Gallion (Gallion) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Sam's answers are spot on. The list is as polished as it could be without releasing to the public and listening to thier questions, and we felt that it was important to get this higher list through, even this close to the event.

I would like to address the item issue for this event, however we are still working on the particulars to make it as fair as possible for the player, without allowing the whole reason these changes were made to be cheapened. So unless otherwise posted here well use his temporary fix. If we do decide to do the items this event we will make a separate post letting you know the precise procedure and how to go about it.



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26 Jan 2012 07:21 #45 by Gallion (Gallion)
Replied by Gallion (Gallion) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Post about Items are coming now in a separate thread. Look for it.


One more ritual hot fix is being put in, because it relates in part to the new arch caster list.

Ritual of Mythrien's Greater Transmutation has been modified as follows:
Loses the ability to surge cast spells of the chosen sphere.
The MP gain has been increased to 20.
The addition to all weapon damage has been increased to +2 of the chosen element.



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26 Jan 2012 15:42 - 26 Jan 2012 15:42 #46 by Ib (Gannon)
Replied by Ib (Gannon) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Can spells cast using abilities from this list still be counterspelled (i know valence cant as its not lower list)? i dont see why they wouldnt, but just want to make sure.


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Last edit: 26 Jan 2012 15:42 by Ib (Gannon).

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26 Jan 2012 15:57 #47 by Erdrick (Erdrick)
Replied by Erdrick (Erdrick) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Yes.

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26 Jan 2012 22:57 #48 by Janus (Janus)
Replied by Janus (Janus) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Does Greatrer Transmutation still give the resists for the chosen element?

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27 Jan 2012 06:59 #49 by Erdrick (Erdrick)
Replied by Erdrick (Erdrick) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Yes

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27 Jan 2012 09:48 #50 by GJSchaller (GJSchaller)
Replied by GJSchaller (GJSchaller) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
The edits to the other Higher Lists have been entered into the Rulebook (on the website). Arch-Caster will be added to the PDF rulebook the weekend before the Feb. event, following normal procedure.


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02 Feb 2012 22:47 #51 by Mordecai Ashfields (ambrose_leonidas)
Replied by Mordecai Ashfields (ambrose_leonidas) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Does double cast cost double points?

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02 Feb 2012 23:08 #52 by Barak Tellinghast (Barak Tellinghast)
Replied by Barak Tellinghast (Barak Tellinghast) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
No.

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03 Feb 2012 14:37 #53 by Mordecai Ashfields (ambrose_leonidas)
Replied by Mordecai Ashfields (ambrose_leonidas) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
would spell tether work on attacks with a duration EX: spell tether cloud of smoke?

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03 Feb 2012 14:40 #54 by Aleister (Aleister)
Replied by Aleister (Aleister) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
No, beneficial spells only.

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09 Feb 2012 01:58 #55 by Tsoli (Tsoli)
Replied by Tsoli (Tsoli) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
Question, if someone uses an absolute power invisibility, can that be seen with true sight or does that need to be an absolute power true sight?

What about sense life?

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09 Feb 2012 11:39 #56 by Birnum Pyre (Birnum Pyre)
Replied by Birnum Pyre (Birnum Pyre) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
#1. It requires Absolute Power True Sight to see someone under A.P. Invisibility.

#2. Invisibility does not foil Sense Life, so A.S. Invisibility would also not foil Sense Life.

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09 Feb 2012 19:34 #57 by Dante (Dante)
Replied by Dante (Dante) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
when you make the final re-right on this list you might think of changing the
(In order to teach this list)

i know there is a higher list teacher list and it's approval (you have to be on it to teach)

but as i read this part i do not see that you even have to know the list to teach it.
ie;; i could teach Gideon this list if that ever came up.

In order to teach this list, or the skills on it, the teacher and the student must have a casting class in common, and have the minimum requirements for the list in that class. For example, if a Mage / Priest wanted to teach a Druid / Mage, both characters would need to have four Rank IV spells in Mage for the lesson to be successful. Mages may teach Bards with two Rank IV Enchantment spells as if they were Mages, and vice versa.

or is it true that the student can teach the master

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09 Feb 2012 21:08 #58 by GJSchaller (GJSchaller)
Replied by GJSchaller (GJSchaller) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
You have to have the list to be able to teach it - that's one of the basic rules of Teach.


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09 Feb 2012 21:09 #59 by Draknar DoKanen (Draknar DoKanen)
Replied by Draknar DoKanen (Draknar DoKanen) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
I'm not really sure what you're asking, but 1) this is the final writeup for this list and 2) you have to know a list to teach it. That's not written in the requirements because its logical and follows the requirements of teaching anything IG.

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09 Feb 2012 22:08 #60 by Dante (Dante)
Replied by Dante (Dante) on topic Rules Update: Arch Caster
i am not try to say i am going to try to teach the list

i understand the intent

but it has bean stated many time if the description of the skill state one thing and the rules state something else you go the description
ie;; unless other wise stated by the description of a skill use the main rules

and you have a description that states (minimum requirements)

can't you see this causing ? down the line

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