normal New Errata - Casted effects et al

13 Nov 2014 17:36 #1 by Woolsey Bysmor (Osred)
New Errata - Casted effects et al was created by Woolsey Bysmor (Osred)
After much discussion after getting input on the changes to casted effect, we have put together the changes that went in. We took into consideration a lot of the input we were given and how it fit into the direction we wanted to move into. Thank you again to everyone who helped out with this change!

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13 Nov 2014 18:13 #2 by Caldor Eirson (Caldor)
Replied by Caldor Eirson (Caldor) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Do the changes to the positions apply retroactively to ones already in play? For example, do all of my potions of lesser healing now heal 10, or only those made going forward?

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13 Nov 2014 18:22 #3 by Caelvan (Caelvan)
Replied by Caelvan (Caelvan) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Are these in effect January event? Or December? I assume January but wanted to make sure.

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13 Nov 2014 19:29 #4 by rivanyasi (rivanyasi)
Replied by rivanyasi (rivanyasi) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
I know I'm shooting myself in the foot, here, but...

With the new errata including the change to Pulverize, is Maul going to be brought back into line with it?

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13 Nov 2014 19:42 #5 by Grimkjell Eirson (BillHannings)
Replied by Grimkjell Eirson (BillHannings) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
I was wondering about maul myself.

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13 Nov 2014 20:28 #6 by Draven Erdboren (Grundill)
Replied by Draven Erdboren (Grundill) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Shush up!

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13 Nov 2014 21:38 #7 by JTinney (Swordsaint)
Replied by JTinney (Swordsaint) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al

Draven Erdboren wrote: Shush up!


*busts out laughing*

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13 Nov 2014 22:25 #8 by Dame Clytie Silverfang (itsgonnabemay)
Replied by Dame Clytie Silverfang (itsgonnabemay) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Will alchemical alcohols made before the errata still exist, or will they automatically be made into vials of light?

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13 Nov 2014 22:44 #9 by Caelvan (Caelvan)
Replied by Caelvan (Caelvan) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
"Remove from the description of Glomm the following sentence:
“Glommites revel in the creation of undead, which are the ultimate perversion of their living forms. Undead also trap souls in the material world, which denies them to Glomm’s enemy, Galladel.”"

Does this mean undead don't have souls in them? What is the clarification for that?

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13 Nov 2014 23:00 #10 by Aleister (Aleister)
Replied by Aleister (Aleister) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
It just means that section of the rulebook was removed as glomm priests no longer summon undead.

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14 Nov 2014 10:33 - 14 Nov 2014 10:47 #11 by Caldor Eirson (Caldor)
Replied by Caldor Eirson (Caldor) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Question about the new prayer Temptation:

The priests suggests that the target engage in some activity. The subject must role-play the suggestion as though it were one of her own natural thoughts for a duration of ten minutes.

Given that it affects the mind, shouldn't it have the mental trait? I note that the psionic rank 3 ability that does the same thing has the mental trait.

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Last edit: 14 Nov 2014 10:47 by Caldor Eirson (Caldor).

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14 Nov 2014 11:32 #12 by Draven Erdboren (Grundill)
Replied by Draven Erdboren (Grundill) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Grovel
1 FP; Traits: Divine (Authority), Attack, Ranged, Knocked Prone
This prayer forces a target to be knocked prone for 5 seconds.

Am i right in thinking that a Cat Like Grace would prevent this knockdown ?

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14 Nov 2014 11:57 #13 by GJSchaller (GJSchaller)
Replied by GJSchaller (GJSchaller) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Have you ever successfully forced a cat to grovel? ;-)

(Yes, it would. Cat Like Grace specifically defends against Knocked Prone attacks.)


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14 Nov 2014 15:22 #14 by Alexandre Blythewood (Eleventh Phoenix)
Replied by Alexandre Blythewood (Eleventh Phoenix) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Yes, Jason, that was an oversight. Temptation should have the Mental trait.

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14 Nov 2014 15:27 #15 by Kleidin (Kleidin)
Replied by Kleidin (Kleidin) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
What is the status of maul? Will it remain as is, or change to 1 limb and dazed?

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14 Nov 2014 15:38 - 14 Nov 2014 15:39 #16 by Kanas Whisperwood Silverfang (midgetelf)
Replied by Kanas Whisperwood Silverfang (midgetelf) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Since Quell is getting the mental trait, and from the rulebook it says this:
Berserker Rage

Skill (Periodic), Rage
With this skill a character can launch into a lethal fit of rage. When this skill is used, the character gains twenty Body Points and +2 Strength for ten minutes. While under the effects of Berserker Rage, the character is immune to all effects with the Mental, Social, Pain, and Fear traits, both beneficial and harmful. In addition, the character is immune to the skill Waylay. While under the effects of this skill, the character may only use abilities with the Melee trait. Communication of any sort is impossible when a character is under the effects of Berserker Rage. The character will battle all enemies until they have fallen. While under the effects of Berserker Rage, the character will consider anyone who targets her with an ability to be an enemy and will immediately attack someone who does so. The character does not snap out of Berserker Rage until the ten minutes have expired, or all enemies have fallen. When Berserker Rage ends, the character is Dazed for 5 minutes.

Quell

1 FP; Traits: Divine (Authority), Attack, Ranged
This prayer terminates any rage skill, spell, or ability affecting the opponent. The opponent is brought to the end of the ability’s duration and is subject to any detriments that normally occur at the end of it.

Would I be immune to Quell when in a Berserker rage or would I still be affected by the ability of the prayer?

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Last edit: 14 Nov 2014 15:39 by Kanas Whisperwood Silverfang (midgetelf).

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14 Nov 2014 16:12 - 14 Nov 2014 16:15 #17 by Dennis Brand (Devin)
Replied by Dennis Brand (Devin) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
For Clerics and Priests to get the Additional Deity's Domain, the pre-requisite is "Sacrament and First Deity's Domain." Since Clergy of Visagalis can't learn the Sacrament Domain, how are they supposed to learn their second Domain? Is it given for no cost in place of the Sacrament Domain?

Also concerning Visagalis, what is his weapon, as per the Cleric's Weapon skill?

Cleric's Weapon

The Cleric may purchase a single, specific weapon skill that falls within the tenets of their Deity's choice for a weapon (i.e. – 1 Handed Edge, Bastard Blunt, 2 Handed Blunt, etc.). This skill may be purchased multiple times for different sizes of weapons, or different weapons if allowed. Please see the "Deities of Arawyn" section for the appropriate Holy Weapon(s) for each deity.


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14 Nov 2014 19:35 #18 by Gilthu (Gilthu)
Replied by Gilthu (Gilthu) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Does this change include updating Natural Transpositions and Leader of the pack? I keep spending Druidic essences only to get told you can't make or socket runes of those two rituals, hehe.

Also all these changes are awesome!

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14 Nov 2014 23:14 #19 by Woolsey Bysmor (Osred)
Replied by Woolsey Bysmor (Osred) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
I just wanted to know we aren't ignoring you the issues we will resolve soon are:

1) Wording of how rage ending effects interact with rages that are immune to mental effects.
2) The Pulverize/Maul question - I take full blame for this being a question, but I want to talk this over before I answer it.


However about Natural Transpositions and Leader of the Pack. It is possible you are a victim of mis-communication, which is easy with this stuff.

You DO make runes of these, and you DO put them in sockets. However, you can not put them into the socket of a BOUND item. Also they must both be on the same item.

So if you have an item with 3 sockets, you do this:

Socket 1: Natural Transposition Expires 12/14 (6/15)
Socket 2: Leader of the Pack Expires 2/15 (8/15)
Socket 3: Regeneration Expires 1/15 (7/15)

But that means if you had loose on you a Scorge Doll, that wasn't in that item, you could not use it, but if you stuffed it using Geomancy, you could put it into one of the other sockets as the second rune in that socket.

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15 Nov 2014 00:00 #20 by Arkelian (TheRevenantHero)
Replied by Arkelian (TheRevenantHero) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
The main concern I have is that Beserker Rage is a 5 build ability but can just be completely negated by something that \ costs one build and can be essentially casted non-stop. I just worry that beserkers will be completely outmatched by someone that just wandered into town with access to lower level prayers.

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15 Nov 2014 00:37 #21 by Dennis Brand (Devin)
Replied by Dennis Brand (Devin) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
I don't think a Berserker will be completely outmatched based one Prayer. Using your scenario, it all really comes down to smart skill use. I think if a 9th level Berserker has to use Berserker Rage against a 5th level Priest... something has gone horribly wrong.

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15 Nov 2014 02:08 #22 by Kanas Whisperwood Silverfang (midgetelf)
Replied by Kanas Whisperwood Silverfang (midgetelf) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
With Quell, if the spell stops the rage, then the detriment still occurs, which is a 5 minute daze. The problem is that there is something that could stop the trump card of an entire class, and effectively cripple the player for a duration of time, and at such low cost that it is easily accessed and used.

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15 Nov 2014 09:41 #23 by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933)
Replied by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Geoff, I actually have made a cat grovel. it can be done. I would propose so that Berserker Rage is not completely nerfed, if they use that prayer, it removes the daze too.

As far as casted effects go, I have noticed a trend which is very disturbing to me in LARPers. this trend is for the mystical/magical to always trump the mundane. I am not sure why, but in every LARP I have encountered, there is a tendency towards making the magic user types abilities always trump the mundane. It could be for a coolness factor, it could be due to deep seated insecurities about their own physicality. I do not know, and I cannot say. Personally, I think its bad enough that all magic goes off even if it hits a shield. Especially when there is all kinds of fantasy art that shows a dragon's breath or a fireball being deflected by a shield.

Therefore, I would like to propose that all damaging casted effects (those that deal direct damage- fireballs and such that utilize a spell packet) should be able to be blocked by a shield. things like poison ivy, chains of justice, the wind one that knocks you back are still able to go off if impacting a shield, but the directly damaging ones can now be blocked.

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15 Nov 2014 09:54 - 15 Nov 2014 22:39 #24 by Matt D (MattD)
Replied by Matt D (MattD) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
There already is a heroic ability for blocking spells on a shield off of Vanguard.

Tier 3) Spell Breaker
Skill (Periodic), Augment
For the duration of the battle in which it is used, the Cavalier takes no effect from non-superior spells on that hit her shield.

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15 Nov 2014 10:04 - 15 Nov 2014 10:06 #25 by Caldor Eirson (Caldor)
Replied by Caldor Eirson (Caldor) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al

Raidrthebetrayr wrote: Therefore, I would like to propose that all damaging casted effects (those that deal direct damage- fireballs and such that utilize a spell packet) should be able to be blocked by a shield. things like poison ivy, chains of justice, the wind one that knocks you back are still able to go off if impacting a shield, but the directly damaging ones can now be blocked.


Of course by this logic, a level 1 character with a shield trumps all tier 4 damage dealing spells.

Also, in all games, remember this - I can run out of spells if I run out of casting points or spell packets to throw. You cannot run out of swinging a sword.

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Last edit: 15 Nov 2014 10:06 by Caldor Eirson (Caldor).

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15 Nov 2014 10:34 #26 by Grimkjell Eirson (BillHannings)
Replied by Grimkjell Eirson (BillHannings) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Now, I'm not a rules marshal, but the way the various lists at Knight realms balance is a bit of paper rock scissors.

Warrior lists are Rock, and they clobber Rogue lists in a fight which are Scissors, and Caster lists tend to be paper and can zap warrior lists in the face but get stabified by Rogues. That's why a lot of people spread out their lists to shore up their weaknesses and have more tools in their toolbox. So yes, the mystic tends to trump the muscle, but the guile will trump the mystic pretty handily, normally, and the muscle crunches the guile.

I will say this, though. My character is completely mundane, no mystical abilities whatsoever, but he's still considered useful and terrifyingly powerful on the battlefield. Roleplay can trump rules in terms of personal interaction, and there are a lot of logistical difficulties for a caster that a warrior doesn't have. You can't run out of sword after all ;)

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15 Nov 2014 11:06 #27 by Angry (Angryman86)
Replied by Angry (Angryman86) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Now Grim is not so much like rock but like a mountain. And don't you get tired after gutting the 30th npc that decides he wants to be a hero only to die like a peasant.

And wouldn't this work against the big nasty spells that cause direct damage? Or am I wrongfully throwing spells and abilities together?

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The Master Warrior may defend against any ability that would drop her into the Serious or Critical stage of her death count or kill her instantly.

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15 Nov 2014 11:57 #28 by Alexandre Blythewood (Eleventh Phoenix)
Replied by Alexandre Blythewood (Eleventh Phoenix) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
This thread has strayed from questions about the errata to a discussion about the errata. While the Rules team is certainly open to receiving feedback on our work, this isn't the place for it; we want to keep the question and answers thread as questions and answers so that players can more easily reference it.

I will address one point that's been brought up repeatedly: there has been no "nerf" to Berserker Rage, nor has Quell been increased in strength. We did not change how these abilities function at all in this errata, only clarified their interaction. The intention was always that Quell, Calm, and similar effects that terminate rages worked on Berserker's Rage, despite it's immunity to Mental effects. Quell has always caused the detrimental effects that follow a rage (while Calm does not).

To address your question, Bill, You can use Defiant Cover to stop any spell, skill, or attack that would drop you into any stage of your death count or that would instantly kill you (such as Litany of Doom).

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15 Nov 2014 15:08 #29 by Gilthu (Gilthu)
Replied by Gilthu (Gilthu) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
Can I ask why we can't bind natural transposition and leader of the pack to a bound item? That makes no sense to me at all.

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15 Nov 2014 15:11 #30 by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933)
Replied by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933) on topic New Errata - Casted effects et al
hmmm.... I knew I was going to stir up something with this, but it had been gnawing at me and needed to be said, more as a caution than any form of intended animosity. I also had a hunch that the first response to a glaring issue would be the response of "there's this ability on a higher list!" Then again, I guess my lack of higher levels of emotional IQ and having all the tact of an Abrams tank in a china shop is why I never got promoted past Corporal.

I look at balance in this fashion: If I'm playing Archie the Assassin, and I have to take down Murderyourface the Marauder, I'm not taking him on head to head. I'm going to grab every advantage I have. Alchemy, poisons, traps, disguises and my goal is to string him out. death by a thousand papercuts. I'm not striking during the day. I'll hit at night. I have to pick my fights.

The intent is to convince players of the need for better communications and the need to pick their battles. Example:

Danny Druid, Wilhelm Warrior and Barry Berserker are attacked by three orcs. One orc is sword/board, one is just a one handed sword, and one is two axes. Knowing that his poison spell will not work if it hits the shield, he entwines the sword/board orc with vines, and the two fighters go to work on the other two, backed by the druid's hindering (grasp with roots, poison ivy) and damaging spells. Pick your fights within your capabilities, and don't use the metaphorical 120 MM cannon, when the coaxial machine gun will get the job done. this kind of thinking is what I do in every fight and would not be a bad thing for everyone to do.

since I apparently derailed the conversation beyond what anyone intended, if there are questions about what I am thinking of, I will be willing to discuss this via PM. Oh, and everyone thank Matt. He let Evil Raider out to play, while Good Raider is still stumbling around in a daze after the doors were blown open.

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