normal New player(s) with some questions

12 Jul 2019 12:00 #1 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
New player(s) with some questions was created by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
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Hello, a freind and I are considering attending your next event. I've personally only attended a single 7th kingdom game as an NPC, and this would be her first time.

Tldr is I'm a fairly experienced "maker" who can make pro quality boffer arrows, and would like the chance to present my work for approval. The following paragraph is just my research to show I'm doing my homework.

In reading your forum posts I notice that you have a policy on boffer arrows that they can't be made at home. While I agree most of the shoddy duct tape and pennies arrow design made at home don't seem safe, I am certain I could make arrows that meet or exceed the quality of calamacil boffer arrows, to a level that you would probably think they are proffesional if I didn't tell you. I am an engineering student and have access to a 3D printer as well as an entire machine shop. Making stuff for fun is my hobby.
Calamacil boffer arrows, like most pro brands seem to be wood shafted with custom plastic tips, with multiple stages of foam, namely a thin Eva tip for even compression, an open cell layer for padding, a closed/dense foam layer for protection and structure, and then some form of rear cover. All of this is glued together with rubber contact cement (I think, unfortunately we can't see the glue). We also can't see there plastic tips, but the tear down diagram clearly shows the design as a flared cap. I would 3D print this internal tip, but I could injection mold it in time, though it wouldn't change much. The circular shape of the heads is likely acheived by sandwiching and gluing the first 3 layers together and using a large hole saw. The last layer is made separately and added after the top 3 glued on.

I can easily make that arrow. It wouldn't be hard to make extra even for the game. They would meet the quality of "pro" arrows. If not by next game then the one after.

I understand the intent of the rules, but would it be possible for me to bring a set of shopmade arrows to the game, along with one that is torn down preemptively, for you to look over? I'd be willing to make changes, and if we settle on a design, I could make extra for NPC's, as the jigs will be reusable. If they still aren't good enough, I'll improve them or kabosh the project, although I'm pretty sure I could use these at another game.

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12 Jul 2019 12:06 #2 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Additionally, I could use what your minimum dimensions are for the impact head and internal disk are. 2-3 inches for the impact surface should prevent eye injury. The internal disk is harder to determine, but half an inch of foam seems safe.

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12 Jul 2019 13:03 #3 by LoisMaxwell (LoisMaxwell)
Replied by LoisMaxwell (LoisMaxwell) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Hello, and welcome!

Yes, go ahead and bring in a sample for us to look at. As you surmised, this policy is more about the intention of preventing the duct-tape-and-pennies style designs, which can vary wildly in safety from person to person and even arrow to arrow. A documented process and standardized, machined construction is a different beast entirely: with technology like 3D printers becoming more common for home use the line between "professional shop" and "hobbyist" is getting blurrier. I would love the chance to see arrows you make by your described process in person.

Our minimum dimensions are based entirely on the impact head, and they are "too big to fit in an eye socket". I know, not exactly the most exacting specification :-D It wasn't something we had to measure exactly while we have the rule about shop-purchased arrows, but about 3" seems appropriate here.

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12 Jul 2019 13:22 #4 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Ok great!

I don't see rules regarding bows themselves. They aren't for combat, but should they be padded? Are PVC bows allowed?

Another thing. I see you have rules for merchant. I was thinking of making being a traveling trader part of my character. Is there any useful items I could print to sell in your opinion? Like, "oh people always need potion phys reps" Otherwise I'll stick to charms and necklaces. Perhaps once I better understand your rules I'll enchant my charms with some magic.

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12 Jul 2019 14:27 #5 by LoisMaxwell (LoisMaxwell)
Replied by LoisMaxwell (LoisMaxwell) on topic New player(s) with some questions
The bow itself can be of any material construction, but the draw weight must be low, around 25 lbs. Some people favor the boffer/latex styles just because they're intentionally designed to be big enough for adults to handle while still having the low draw weight that is more commonly seen in child-size bows, but it's a matter of personal preference.

I haven't bought anything at game that wasn't paper in some time, so I'll defer this question to others :)

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12 Jul 2019 21:28 #6 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Sounds good.

Another thing. I'm allergic to dogs and other pets. I'll be miserable if I'm trapped in a room with them. Shame there good Bois. Will I be ok?

I also have Celiac's, and eat kosher. I should probably just bring my own food for Saturday dinner.

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12 Jul 2019 21:30 #7 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions

Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) wrote: Sounds good.

Another thing. I'm allergic to dogs and other pets. I'll be miserable if I'm trapped in a room with them. Shame they are good Bois. Will I be ok?

I also have Celiac's, and eat kosher. I should probably just bring my own food for Saturday dinner.

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12 Jul 2019 23:46 - 12 Jul 2019 23:52 #8 by Caelvan (Caelvan)
Replied by Caelvan (Caelvan) on topic New player(s) with some questions
To piggy back on Cassies comment,

After looking into PVC bows, I am unsure of their safety in a LARP environment. Using them for low poundage training is a different story than constant shooting in a stress environment where they could(shouldn't but could) get hit. PVC can be brittle based off of manufacture and has the potential to snap without warning, or with even the smallest stress fracture.

However, I would not be opposed to examining this style of bow. Though the typical warning that we give, a weapon is not approved for play until we see and test it in person.

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Last edit: 12 Jul 2019 23:52 by Caelvan (Caelvan).

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12 Jul 2019 23:48 #9 by Caelvan (Caelvan)
Replied by Caelvan (Caelvan) on topic New player(s) with some questions
As far as your allergies to pets, you should be okay. The only animal that is kept as a pet is kept in the Director's apartment. As long as you don't go there, which people aren't allowed to go without invitation anyway, you should be okay.

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12 Jul 2019 23:56 - 12 Jul 2019 23:57 #10 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
That's pretty fair. It'd help to have your specific rules. Going based on "it's safe" is a little hard to work with as a newcomer. But I understand, and it's not my place to say.

I'm thinking a 3D printed handle for a rest, (I hope I have time lol) and more importantly a wrap of tape should render PVC safer then fiberglass, as fiberglass is nasty when it splinters, let alone shatters. I'll try to bring my backup graphite swords.
Last edit: 12 Jul 2019 23:57 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610).

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13 Jul 2019 00:07 #11 by Caelvan (Caelvan)
Replied by Caelvan (Caelvan) on topic New player(s) with some questions
I see what you are saying by the "it's safe" being difficult to work with, and I apologize for that.

Unfortunately, beyond saying its safe is a little difficult, especially when it comes to archery.
Melee weapons are a bit easier to define, since a good rule(s) of thumb is/are, if it hurts getting hit by it, or if it appears that it could easily break, you probably shouldn't be using it.

The other thing to think about is the bowstring, which if you don't mind telling me what it would be made out of, as the bowstring is an important part of any bow.
As an archer I am mindful of my bowstring and from the ones I've seen I'm skeptical.
Again though, I would not be opposed to examining this as it would be a new experience seeing one in person, as well as hearing about its construction.

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13 Jul 2019 00:15 #12 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
That's ok. You're rules and freindliness is already better then the last larp I attended. I was a tiny bit turned off by it.

Could you recommend a reasonably priced first bow? Heck even arrows if they are less than 10 each. They just seem a bit overpriced, although I get we are paying for absolute safety.

I was thinking of buying a proper bow string, maybe even some real wood arrows to get proper fletching. Both of those seem hard to properly replicate, though metal "rope" and 3d printed fletching/feathers/ribbon stabilizers wouldn't be hard.

Although, maybe I could bring some supplies and learn from the best.

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13 Jul 2019 00:29 #13 by Caelvan (Caelvan)
Replied by Caelvan (Caelvan) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Another player found a set of 6 arrows that were approved for play for about $35. After trying them out, I found that they flew better than the $10-$13 ones anyway. Here is the link for them if you want to test them out:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BVT912Q/ref...o07_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

I would suggest not bringing real wood shafts though if you do try to make your own arrows, as they do get stepped on sometimes and wood shafts could snap very easily.

Bows are a little hard to find at a reasonable price. However, personally, a wrapped PVC bow with a proper bowstring would make me feel a lot better than the ones that I have seen looking this topic up. The hard part with proper bowstrings is they are usually made to the bow, not the other way around. I wish you luck on this endeavor however and look forward to what you bring!

Feel free to try to bring a PVC bow until you know you want to continue playing/doing archery at the game. I'll gladly take a look at it when you come to game!

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13 Jul 2019 00:37 - 13 Jul 2019 00:39 #14 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
That's not bad actually. I might buy a set to look at/backup.

Is the back plastic or rubber? If it's plastic on your arrows it's so much easier to make. If it's rubber or Eva foam it's just more layers.

Do you prefer fiberglass arrows? I thought they might be dangerous but I prefer them. I shot bows in school and in the scouts.

Can you recommend a bowstring brand? And any good reading you personally enjoy?
Last edit: 13 Jul 2019 00:39 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610).

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13 Jul 2019 00:44 - 13 Jul 2019 00:44 #15 by Caelvan (Caelvan)
Replied by Caelvan (Caelvan) on topic New player(s) with some questions
The back is a hard foam, and the shafts are carbon shafts which is actually what made me get them. I replaced the fletchings with different ones that I had myself.

As far as bowstring brands, I've gotten the ones that came with my bows, and then when I was working on an archery range, I just made replacements with the jigs that they had in my free time. So I've never had to purchase a new pre-made string. Wish I could be more help in that regard.

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Last edit: 13 Jul 2019 00:44 by Caelvan (Caelvan).
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13 Jul 2019 00:57 #16 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
That's what I figured it was. I guess these engineering classes are coming in handy after all.

I'll look up a tutorial or 2 on bowstring then. Worse comes to worse, perhaps I'll buy or barter some from you or another kind denizen of the realm.

I think it's probably getting late for both of us. I'll poke back in here if I have anymore questions tomorrow. I still gotta work out my character. Thanks!

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13 Jul 2019 20:34 #17 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
So my freind an I have been reading over the rulebook. I notice the summon ability. It's not really clear what you summon or who the NPC is? Is it a person? It seems worded as though she could bring a pet for some boost. She was thinking about bringing her parrot if that's the case, assuming it's safe (obviously not anywhere near combat, but it'd be awesome role-playing for her as a swashbuckler).

Also I'm a little confused how you actually make a charecter. Do you use that charecter builder only? How does one multiclass in that?

Lastly, I'm looking over the engineer class. Is that viable for a beginner?

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13 Jul 2019 21:02 - 13 Jul 2019 21:06 #18 by Caelvan (Caelvan)
Replied by Caelvan (Caelvan) on topic New player(s) with some questions
The summon ability works by asking another player to NPC as your summoned creature. You both go to logistics and ask for a CR2 creature, appropriate to your class, i.e. Undead for a Hexer, Elemental for a Shaman, etc. Your volunteer will then put on appropriate garb/mask that is required for that creature until you dismiss them or they die and you choose not to re-summon them.
You also use the Summon ability to control/tame the appropriate creature.

Multiclassing currently requires a character to be level 5 which is not possible for a brand new character without extra build at creation.

I will let an engineer speak to your last question as I do not play one as either character and would prefer you get a first hand opinion.

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13 Jul 2019 21:13 #19 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Ok makes sense.

To that engineer, do we have some liberty to make cool weapons using the bomb mechanics? It seems support classes like engineers have access to a wide variety of skills but must prepare them as opposed to inherently having them? Like instead of having a stun ability you can use on command, you get to make stun bombs?

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14 Jul 2019 13:13 #20 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
I just want to be a healer with a bow but that looks impossible without multiclassing.

I assume I could start as one class seeking to learn the skills of another? I could "train" with an engineer and learn to use a bow after several events? Perhaps I liked tinkering alot as a kid but blew stuff up to often. Perhaps I'll wear a "prosthetic"

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14 Jul 2019 21:20 #21 by Nalick (NalickDeMarche)
Replied by Nalick (NalickDeMarche) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Hi, Maxwell!

So, starting as one class, definitely! Seeking to learn the skills of another will take a bit of time--less so because of the New Player Drive starting you off 2/3rds of the way toward having a secondary profession.

BUT if you don't want to wait until you've earned 100 build to do both healing and archery, here's a workaround for you to chew on:

Ranger as your class, Acolyte as the paragon ability (which lets you choose one domain of spells, provided you purchase the pre-requisites!), and then one of the healing domains as your chosen Domain.

That would allow you to use a bow but also cast healing spells without waiting approximately 7-8 events.

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16 Jul 2019 06:03 #22 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
That's better looking then the alchemist workaround I figured out I think.

If I'm Reading it right alchemists can make healing potions of some variety that they can stock up and use in there oculum. But it doesn't have the bomb launching of engineers Augmented munitions, which seems awesome, and up my alley.

If I'm reading the rules right I can try a class and change the charecter the first 6 events I'm there? That's pretty lenient in case I don't love it.

Still being a sort londwyndian urban ranger that improvises weapons a bit, and seeks to learn more about the engineering feild seems cool. It's good backstory and role-play. I could probably aid an Engineer in making items as an "Apprentice". Trade some trinkets for their time.

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16 Jul 2019 10:56 #23 by Wren (Wren)
Replied by Wren (Wren) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Maxwell,

I have the engineer class and the augment ammo paragon - feel free to snag me whenever you'd like and we can make some bomb ammo for you to shoot.

My characters name is Wren, and most people can point you in my direction if you ask.

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16 Jul 2019 13:48 - 16 Jul 2019 13:50 #24 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Oh I didn't realize I could use Augmented munitions if someone else made them. That's a cool compromise. I could still "make" ammo/bombs, sorta like an apprentice who hasn't quite learned to fly solo.

Ok, more to consider. If I'm being honest i haven't used a bow for some time, I just want to try it. I normally use Florentine swords, but I'm considering the bow for a change of pace.

Can your bombs be delivered on other ranged weapons like throwing weapons?
How is being an engineer? I know it's a support class, but it seems to have fun options.
Last edit: 16 Jul 2019 13:50 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610).

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16 Jul 2019 23:08 #25 by Nalick (NalickDeMarche)
Replied by Nalick (NalickDeMarche) on topic New player(s) with some questions

Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) wrote: If I'm reading the rules right I can try a class and change the charecter the first 6 events I'm there? That's pretty lenient in case I don't love it.


Correct. Before the rules change, it was three events, but they decided to double it for the sake of player comfort.

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16 Jul 2019 23:26 #26 by Wren (Wren)
Replied by Wren (Wren) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Augmented ammo works for arquebus, crossbow and bow. I don't believe it works for thrown weapons because they don't use ammo. But you can always throw a bomb normally by using a spell packet.

Engineer is a lot of fun if you like the Rp of designing and tinkering. Its a support class so its battle use is more in status effects rather than damage. There are paragon options though that increase its damage capabilities.

I'd honestly say it comes down to what you're more interested in Rp-ing. Ranger gives you a route to casting which opens up its own niche of Rp (verbals, trying rituals etc) while playing an engineer gives you crafting and tinkering Rp.

In the end though, no matter what you choose, you can always find a caster or a crafter to assist in projects and learn from for your second list.

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16 Jul 2019 23:29 - 16 Jul 2019 23:48 #27 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Ok that's nice. I guess I'll try some stuff out. My (real) arrows came in today, and the cad model is done for the screw in foam core. I think I might use pool noodle as a sheath, and then glue open cell on the tip. Should be pretty colorful and safe. I'll post a write up somewhere, as well as the files if someone wants to make there own. Cost per arrow should be 4 bucks. It's not alotta savings but it's a fun project. Edit: pending approval of the design
Last edit: 16 Jul 2019 23:48 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610).

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17 Jul 2019 02:23 #28 by Nalick (NalickDeMarche)
Replied by Nalick (NalickDeMarche) on topic New player(s) with some questions
Feel free to post on the Crafting and Costuming Community group on Facebook if you'd like input or just to share your progress with the rest of our community.

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24 Jul 2019 10:45 #29 by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610)
Replied by Maxwell Samuels (hunter62610) on topic New player(s) with some questions
What do I need to do before the event? Such as pre-registering? I can't seem to find it.

My friend and I have read most of the rulebook and available info on here. I can't quite workout the sleeping situation though. It's group cabins? Do we pay for our own room, or get assigned? Are the cabins Air conditioned? She's mostly concerned about changing clothes, are their changing rooms?

And it sounds like food is for sale Friday Saturday and Sunday right? How much is gluten free?

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24 Jul 2019 12:34 #30 by LoisMaxwell (LoisMaxwell)
Replied by LoisMaxwell (LoisMaxwell) on topic New player(s) with some questions
We don't do pre-registration for the event, but we also don't have an attendance cap. If you want to put in your character ahead of time to save time at check-in, go here: docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeZcBkw...L8go479-RGA/viewform (Our regular character builder that's linked on this site is being worked on, so this is the interim solution). Otherwise, one of our new player marshals will be on hand during check-in to help create your character.

There is first-come-first-serve sleeping in the main Inn building, as well as in a side room off the Town Hall (you might hear it referred to as the barn). There are also a number of group cabins and tents scattered throughout the camp. These locations are usually managed by a specific person, though at check-in a list is available of all the unreserved bunks in those areas if the inn/town hall are all full up. You do not need to pay for a room!

Some of the cabins and inn rooms are air conditioned. There are not dedicated changing rooms, but there are bathrooms and bathhouses.

The Saturday evening feast menu is up here, and there are a lot of gluten free options: www.knightrealms.com/forum/The-Dragons-C...-menu-july-1219.html
I'm not sure what else will be on offer besides pancakes for breakfast, which are obviously not gluten free, but I'll see if someone from kitchen staff can chime in with more details here.

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