normal An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons

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21 Nov 2017 14:56 #31 by SlightlySaneBillliamm (SlightlySaneBillliamm)
Replied by SlightlySaneBillliamm (SlightlySaneBillliamm) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Kava I appreciate your compassion and ability to see reason.

Leliana again you wound me deeply with your words. I want to be friends cause friends don't kill each other and I like not being dead.

The Barbarian with the mean mean words tried to kill me last time I saw him. Please let him know I am terrified of his bulging muscles and clearly leather armor made from the enemies he has slain. Dont hurt me please.
Q'aare'zl

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21 Nov 2017 20:22 #32 by Kaiva (Kaiva Malakai)
Replied by Kaiva (Kaiva Malakai) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
I'm sorry, but I was raised with a different frame of mind, we all have different experiences and trust me this influences our opinions and choices. We can all look to our own strengths of course but without togetherness then what do we have? Alone we fall, together we stand.

Q'aare'zl I'm sorry others acted in haste to kill you, if I am in tranvance this moon and you truly mean no harm to others, and niether your masters please seek refuge with me. I mean you no harm and I truly believe your masters, and you mean no harm and only want to help our cause.

I have compassion for ALL beings, no matter. Race, Creed down to the color of someone's skin. We need to give chances, this is a time for change and if I'm the only one advocating for this signing of this contract I will sign it.
The opportunity for no hostile actions for 6 months can turn into a a year, or to a forever. We don't know unless we try.
I pray for forgiveness. Individuals hurt tranvance yes, but do we know if Q'aare'zl was apart of this? We do not know that, but yet we seek to judge him and kill him just because he came from a place?
What of the drow or goblin, do they deserve death because there pasts are negative, absolutely not.

Please I beg you to consider this, respect there honor they're coming to us.

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“Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”





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21 Nov 2017 20:29 #33 by Nalick (TheBardAbides)
Replied by Nalick (TheBardAbides) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
We forgive men, as She does; we banish demons through the miracles She grants us.

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21 Nov 2017 21:16 #34 by Khala Greycloak (Jymme)
Replied by Khala Greycloak (Jymme) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Kaiva,

What you say applies to people. Demons are not people. They are monsters who only seek to harm us. As one who has been in the hands of a demon who sliced into my skin merely for the joy of watching me bleed, I will not play into any of this. The only good demon is a dead demon.

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22 Nov 2017 10:27 #35 by Kaiva (Kaiva Malakai)
Replied by Kaiva (Kaiva Malakai) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Khala I'm sorry you suffered pain, truly. If you ever want to speak about that pain with me I would be happy to do so.

But you can't condem all beings because one has hurt you. Q'aare'zl has done nothing to you but yet you want to see him dead? That is wrong to me and that is not justice. He has done nothing wrong, and all he looks for is help. They need help, and they also want to help us. I feel that in my heart they mean no harm. And if they harm anyone then I will take the blame and I will gladly die.
We need to give them a chance, just like all of us and any other being has received chances. We have deals with Lich's, we constantly make deals with beings and I don't cast judgement on that, infact I welcome those friendship because they're beautiful. All I'm saying is to give them a chance.

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“Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”





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22 Nov 2017 10:52 - 22 Nov 2017 10:53 #36 by Nalick (TheBardAbides)
Replied by Nalick (TheBardAbides) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Your dedication to the message of our Faith is admirable, yet what you shroud with figurative wings from the barbs of our compatriots, are undeserving.

The only results of giving demons a chance, are treachery and destruction. Homes and homelands razed; I and many others here progeny of those victims.

Save the refuge for those truly in need.


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22 Nov 2017 11:46 - 22 Nov 2017 13:18 #37 by Tyros (Tyros)
Replied by Tyros (Tyros) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Kaiva,

You speak to those who you think weren't hurt directly by Mother or her minion Q'aare'zl. Let me help clarify some things for you. This town was manipulated by them in order to fight her battles before. She used us as tools to kill her rivals and place her on the throne she holds so dearly. Her very nature is to take things like love, hope, kindness, and subvert them, use them to her own ends.
As for giving them a chance? They aren't giving us one, they are offering us to become tools at their disposal so they don't have to expend too much of their precious power. They will wait until an opportunity arises were they may gain the upper hand or something they desperately desire and betray you.

If that wasn't personal enough for you, so be it. These demons, these specific demons used me, never giving me a choice, all the while offering their 'love and support' while I was forced into a life no one should have to live. Doing terrible things, becoming a monster in their image. I endured that until I couldn't any longer, eventually submitting to my fate. It was this town, the people in it and their willingness to help me that gave me the confidence to defy these demons once again. Make no mistake, I am not a demon, I have choice and free will. The irony of demons and all of their chaos is that they don't have a choice, they only have power and aspirations for more of it.

Since I'm sure Q'aare'zl will love to bring this little tidbit up, yes, Mother did in fact keep her end of the deal. Do not think for one moment that it is strictly for my interests. It would only make sense to treat me with 'kindness' now, have me forget all the horrible things that once occurred and replace them with 'love and support'. After all, what's a better ally to have? A rebellious demon or a loyal son?

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Last edit: 22 Nov 2017 13:18 by Tyros (Tyros).
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22 Nov 2017 11:49 - 22 Nov 2017 11:52 #38 by Midori Suarez (krykit)
Replied by Midori Suarez (krykit) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Kaiva,

I understand. I do. Compassion compels you to want to help everyone who comes to your doorstep. And that's good. But you once came to me asking for me to teach you, and Miss Angeliana too. So please listen to what we're telling you now.

You're right. Forgiveness, compassion, and unlikely friendship are beautiful things. But that's not what Mr. Q'aare'zl is asking for. They don't want our forgiveness. They don't want our friendship. Mr. Q'aare'zl said so himself. He said that his master and the Jailor don't want to work with us. That they think it's beneath them. And as soon as they don't need us anymore, things will go right back to the way they were.

Show compassion if you like by not being cruel, but compassion is different from blind trust. You can be compassionate without binding yourself and everyone in Travance to a contract that puts people in danger.

And it does put people in danger. By signing this contract as it is, the truce is only between the people of Travance and two groups of demons. That means that anyone who doesn't live in Travance...Traveling merchants, visiting nobility, farmers... lots of innocent people are not protected by it. That means the demons that would be running around supposedly helping us could do whatever they wanted to those people, and we couldn't protect them without breaking the contract. So please think about those people too, not just the demons, who have tricked us before. These same ones, in fact. Mr. Q'aare'zl and his master came to us and tricked us into winning her throne for her. Please do not let them trick you.

Like Miss Angeliana has said, forgive does not mean forget. Compassion doesn't mean blind trust. If you want to give compassion to Mr. Q'aare'zl, then show him kindness. If you want to forgive him for tricking us before, that's fine too. But don't forget that he isn't sorry for that. He isn't asking for kindness, forgiveness, compassion, or friendship. He's asking for blind trust, and that is not only dangerous, but not something Andorra asks of you either. If you want someone to put your trust in, let it be your high priest and priestess, and those you have already put enough trust in to ask them to teach you.

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22 Nov 2017 16:55 #39 by Leliana (ChristineR)
Replied by Leliana (ChristineR) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Q'aare'zl,

I'm not wounding you. I told you what you need to do to be my friend.
My best friends are the ones that listen exactly to my every demand.


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22 Nov 2017 19:47 #40 by Khala Greycloak (Jymme)
Replied by Khala Greycloak (Jymme) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Kaila,

Q'aare'zl's words may sound sweet, but they drip with poison and it seems you have been taken in by them. He is a pretty snake, drawing you in so he can bite you and kill you. Listen to those who have experience. Do not give into this crazy idea you have of "peace" with the demons. They don't do peace.

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23 Nov 2017 13:08 - 24 Nov 2017 09:43 #41 by Kaiva (Kaiva Malakai)
Replied by Kaiva (Kaiva Malakai) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Midori and Angeliana I thank you my teachers for speaking to me, I really do. I also thank all who spoke to me, But my heart says that they're sincere. I understand what there kind has caused and I'm so sorry it happened but my heart says that they mean no harm. they're asking us for our help. They came to us for our help and that must mean something. Q'aare'zl has even said here that he wants to be friends, I must show him and them compassion. I must, as I show compassion and love for everyone. No matter who they are.

I feel pain for the pain that everyone speaks on here, that was caused by the past I really do. But we also must move on into a brighter future and this is a promise for renewed faith. Forgiveness is hard but it is also a virtue, I'm so sorry if I'm angering anyone I really don't mean too. But I feel like this is good for the town and our plane. Imagine 6 months, even eventually possibly years? No attacks from the abyssal plane, no murders just peace. That is something I think our plane deserves. No family, or child or person has to worry, that is something beautiful and to aim for.

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“Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”





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Last edit: 24 Nov 2017 09:43 by Kaiva (Kaiva Malakai).

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23 Nov 2017 13:53 - 23 Nov 2017 13:53 #42 by Caelvan (Caelvan)
Replied by Caelvan (Caelvan) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
**Not Caelvan**

You can't trust a demon. Period. They will lie and cheat and betray you if it means it comes out better for them. No attacks for 6 months or longer? Did you not read the end of the thing we are supposed to sign?

"*Abyssal Lords cannot be held responsible for minions of any Plane of the Abyss other than their own. Additionally, Abyssal Lords cannot be held responsible for any being, mortal or Abyssal acting in their Name without express permission or against the wishes of said Abyssal Lord."

We can still be attacked by demons. This doesn't stop it. This only stops(supposedly) the Fire and Ice Lords from saying "oh lets go attack the prime material plane". Any other demon can do it in their name. The Lords just can't "order" it. But you know what they can say from this? To all their servants, "I wish I could attack Travance right now." I'm sure Q'aare'zl and others like it would do that because the Head of Fire wishes it. But she didn't "order" it so it doesn't break the contract.

Also,
"As added incentive, the Abyssal Lords of Fire and Ice further agree to cease any offensive actions on the Prime Material Plane for the duration of six months upon the completion of terms outlined herein"

What about your friends that will be in the Abyss when Kalin is put on his throne. This contract doesn't protect them. And since "The way to stop abyssal energies killing you is by attuning yourself to the plane. Which is very dangerous cause if you die there you die forever." They won't simply come back to the plane as if they are banished. They will die. What will you say to their families?

The Wheel turns for all of us on this Plane. Fate will lead us. A contract with Demons is the easy way. Fate can be cruel and hard, but it is the right way.

-Z'Hade Enam Merikh Tazam





Caelvan Renaith McKraegar
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Last edit: 23 Nov 2017 13:53 by Caelvan (Caelvan).

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23 Nov 2017 19:42 #43 by SlightlySaneBillliamm (SlightlySaneBillliamm)
Replied by SlightlySaneBillliamm (SlightlySaneBillliamm) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
The Abyssal lords will protect you mortals from the detrimental affects of our plane as part of the deal. They can't sign a contract saying they won't harm you for 6 months in the Abyss because it would mean they couldn't repel an invasion from you mortals. We can edit the contract to make sure you are protected while fulfilling your side of the deal and safely get you out of the Abyss as well.
-Q
P.S. have sone faith

"Slightly Sane Billliamm"

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23 Nov 2017 23:56 #44 by Khala Greycloak (Jymme)
Replied by Khala Greycloak (Jymme) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
There are some things that cannot be forgiven. The things that demons have done... their very nature, that is one of those. The only way peace will happen with demons is if they are either all dead, or we find a way to lock them all to their planes, unable to return to ours. If you wish to continue spreading this filth of "being compassionate" to them or "trusting" them, then do so, but that makes you just as dangerous to this town as they are in my eyes.

~Khala

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24 Nov 2017 02:08 #45 by Aleister (Aleister)
Replied by Aleister (Aleister) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Compassion, hope, and trust are the furthest things from filth, even if they are towards a demon. And I won't see Kaiva berated for her tenacity. I find her willingness to stand by her conviction something to be proud of.

Let fact and action show what these demons will do. She has said her stance and so have many others. In the end, the decision is up to all of you collectively and we will live with that choice for better or worse.

We all lost a great deal in the Demon Wars. I still walk the streets of Oringard and stare at abandoned homes. When I sit in my Manor in Oringard I still look to the northern swamps and remember the devastation wrought upon Crimhagen. Scars run deep, as they should. I still feel the bite of the frost that crept through my spine and veins when the Jailor captured me Billiam and tortured us for that very long year. We know what has been done and what will continue to be done. And yet as I run my hand across those scars, I do not spurn Kaiva for her hope. I find it comforting that someone can still believe in something so grand. So when the demons show their true nature, don't be so hasty to stick your finger in the faces of those who hoped and trusted and balk at them. Instead, offer your hand and help her and others remember that such trust is only ever broken once and that we show no mercy to those who break our trust.

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24 Nov 2017 09:37 #46 by Ilana Darkwood (Ilana_Darkwood)
Replied by Ilana Darkwood (Ilana_Darkwood) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Alright, if I can get this back on track please.


Another update:

1) Get Kalen *or* the Abyssal Power of the Earth Throne back into the Abyss.
We have quite a few plans, but we require research to complete it.


2) Contact Faerie and let them know “Hello, your Prince wants to return but you all become witches if that happens. Please help us stop that.”
Still waiting.


3) Arawyn. This faerie is able to use druidics. Maybe the source of druidics will cut that off if we get its attention and ask for help.
Still waiting.
The ritual will be researched to make sure no steps are missing, but there's mostly a ritual ready.


4) Closing a Demon Chaos Portal.
Sorcerers, Witch Hunters, Healers, I have the notes on how we closed Xualla's Chaos Orb Portals and I also remember how we closed the giant portal the two Demonic Blood Sorcerer Twins were guarding (long story) It's the same premise at least but we need to figure out how to get past this new 'Mortals can't get through the portal' problem that has developed with this Abyssal Portal. If we could make a gap in that... I am going to assume it is a defense because it was never an issue before, we have a solid plan but a handful of people may get trapped in the Abyss (we didn't have banishment scrolls last time and there was a giant demon waiting for us on the other side, so we ended up a bit scattered before we could do anything. But, we could probably come up with a better plan this time now that we know what happens)


5) Luring Kalen Back to the Proper
With Avalon's help, this doesn't seem impossible. He wants to get back home, right? We just need to put enough power in one place to get his attention.

6) Surviving the Abyss
We... have a plan and we may even have a part of the Abyss we can 'test run' but, it will certainly require us to have a few folks with green sorcery and other traveling abilities to fix the rift that gets made in the process. (We figured out how to open rifts, not really portals and it's really dangerous otherwise.)

7) Trapping the Legionaries
We need to come up with something. Inventors, crafters, anyone interested in making things, start thinking. Where'd that living lightning come from? I'm sure if we reinforce that with something, this won't go poorly.

Maybe we can make a fancy box or two with the Erudian Pearls again? That went quite well last time.



To reiterate, some folks have been worried that my ideas are similar to working with demons but instead of demons asking a bunch of various powers to do all the work.

That is not the case.

They have resources we do not currently have and I am hoping they will help provide the extra resources we cannot obtain in such a short amount of time (we don't have a year or a month to plan, just a couple of weeks). I expect Travance to work hard and fairly with anyone/anything that can help us without all the taboo attached.


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24 Nov 2017 20:57 #47 by Verrill Lebastion (Wellby)
Replied by Verrill Lebastion (Wellby) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Malakai,

You say your heart hears their sincerity- that your soul sees hope living within them. You believe that it is by your hand even a demon may be redeemed even if it risks those who already live in God's grace.

I am not here to lecture you, for your vicious vanity will soon feed my Maiden and I acknowledge your tithe.

Andorrans should pray for you.
Varkesh Dolorcor


Magistrate of Travance
R. Tzaareth


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24 Nov 2017 21:16 - 24 Nov 2017 21:17 #48 by Kaiva (Kaiva Malakai)
Replied by Kaiva (Kaiva Malakai) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
My goddess speaks for me, as yours speaks for you. I walk with her words on my tongue. I speak through her, I am her vessel, I follow her words, her teaching not because it is fun, but because I believe in them. Wholly, she has shown me the way when I was lost, and forgotten. These individuals need to be giving a chance to redeem themselves. If I am wrong, condem me, surely I will take whatever punishment seems fit. But I will know that my heart was honest, and true and that I tried my best to see the light that shines in everyone, in these beings. Everyone deserves a chance, and I will die for my honor and my word proudly for my goddess, as I assume you would.

I give chances, I love all, and I even love these demons and I hope that whatever crosses there paths shows them the light. There is light in every dark corner. Remember this.

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24 Nov 2017 21:45 #49 by Midori Suarez (krykit)
Replied by Midori Suarez (krykit) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Mr. Lord Aleister is right. Please do not be cruel to Kaiva, even if you don't agree with her. She has clearly made up her mind to have faith in this. No matter who turns out to be right or wrong, this will be an important lesson for her. Maybe for us too. She is right in that everyone's experiences are different. And to those like Miss Khala who have been personally hurt by these or other demons, no amount of explaining will make her understand what you have seen. And Kaiva, no amount of the words "I'm sorry for what happened to you" will fix, heal, or lessen their pain, especially if it's followed by the word "but." That word usually undoes any words that come before it. You will not change their mind that way any more than they will change yours by telling you their experience. You will only make them feel like you care more about the demons than you do about them, even though that's not true. It is hard to stand up to everyone when you feel very strongly about something, and they don't agree. And you're very brave to do it. But at this point, I think, everybody knows where Kaiva stands. And she know where you stand. And nobody is going to change one another's minds with words on paper, especially if they're insulting, angry, or condescending. So no more, okay? Miss Ilana wrote this missive to present alternatives for those of us who don't want to work with the demons. So let's talk about that, and if there must be more debate about whether or not to sign their contract, it should be on the board where the contract was posted. Here, we should talk about other options.

Speaking of which, Miss Illana, I sent the letter to Miss Pyke a little more than a week ago. I still haven't gotten an answer, but she lives very very very far away, so it might take a while longer.

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24 Nov 2017 23:28 #50 by Lathiel (Lathiel)
Replied by Lathiel (Lathiel) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
I believe Kaiva is being rather harshly chastised. Kaiva, I strongly admire your fervor and courage. It is much-needed refreshment. Your piety and strive to maintain a true and honest heart enlightens me. However, be very wary of people and especially creatures from another plane. I have witnessed too many instances where people have been given chance after chance for redemption, but end up hurting more people than previously. You might get to learn this personally. You learn that people sometimes truly have no light within them. Out of my ten years in Travance and countless instances with necromancers and Dark Paladins, I have looked in the face of people who truly have sought nothing but the destruction of life and desecration of everything good. I wish nothing other than to protect you and the people you love. Something I have always learned is that you first seek someone's redemption before harming them. If they show no will to redeem themselves, then assume that their malicious motives will continue. I hope that this helps.

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25 Nov 2017 00:39 #51 by Grimkjell Eirson (BillHannings)
Replied by Grimkjell Eirson (BillHannings) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
A paladin has written words, and they are good. I would only add that your compassion might be better suited elsewhere than directed at things that seem to be personifications of malice. There are many hurt souls in travance, and it is often the trap I have seen Andorrans fall into the try to redeem those that openly embrace evil without flinching, rather than helping those that are balanced on the knife edge between good and evil.

Before you look into the Abyss to help, perhaps your words and deeds would be better suited to the lost within Travance itself.

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25 Nov 2017 01:08 - 25 Nov 2017 01:12 #52 by Seth (Kurteth)
Replied by Seth (Kurteth) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Why are you all wasting effort on this?

You won't convince her and she won't convince you.

Focus on fixing the problem more than convincing some priestess it's the right thing to do. If she gets in the way of your decision, then move her.

You're wasting time.

Seth





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Last edit: 25 Nov 2017 01:12 by Seth (Kurteth).
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25 Nov 2017 01:21 #53 by Liz (Liz)
Replied by Liz (Liz) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
I do have a simple question.

Instead of signing a contract, why not just agree to a cease fire for now? Like it or not, the demons are in this. This is survival for them just like it is for us- they can't not be in this even if we don't see them. Dismissing that is blinding yourself to reality. Why not simply make a cease fire so that we can concentrate on the true threat here?

The Mother and the Jailer will surely be around after Kalen is dealt with- one way or another.

In the meantime, thank you Ilana for working so hard and diligently. I am unsure whether I will be at this feast due to the amount of attacks on the subjects in the Proper, but I will make an attempt.

-Allyce

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25 Nov 2017 12:14 #54 by Midori Suarez (krykit)
Replied by Midori Suarez (krykit) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Miss Ilana,

I got an answer from Pyke. She said that her mother is worried about another war with demons and doesn't think it's a good idea. And Pyke agrees, especially with what happened to Kalen that put us in this situation. So the Air Queen doesn't think the order should come from her court. But she also said that Mr. King Avalon will be present at the December feast, and if he calls on them for help, then they will answer the call. Would you like me to write to him, or would you rather just speak with him in person?

-Midori Suarez
Daughter of Mercy

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25 Nov 2017 12:17 #55 by Khala Greycloak (Jymme)
Replied by Khala Greycloak (Jymme) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Whatever is needed from me to help in any way to either seal the portal or destroy the demon menace, I will do it. I dont have a lot in the way of druidics or raw strength, but what I do have I will utilize to help keep Travance safe.

~Khala

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25 Nov 2017 15:55 #56 by Ilana Darkwood (Ilana_Darkwood)
Replied by Ilana Darkwood (Ilana_Darkwood) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
Midori,

Avalon is partly arriving to town as I requested a few individuals to contact him, so I will wait until he gets to town.

I'll send you some transportable snacks for yourself and send some along with Pyke and her relatives for thanks.

-Squire Ilana Darkwood

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25 Nov 2017 17:17 #57 by Mantel (sigma-j)
Replied by Mantel (sigma-j) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
As a tangent and last resort, If we're going to be forced to work with the Ice and Fire demons, then the contract must be agreed upon and signed.

They are metaphysically bound to honor the written word to the letter. It puts us at an advantage over an agreement held only in word of mouth and trust.

I will reiterate that I do not trust the contract as-written. I wouldn't bring so much as a dry plume within line of sight of it, for fear that bewitched quill might take flight out of my hand, miraculously dip into a wet well, and fleck something passable as a signature upon its all-but-cursed parchment.

--Mantel Warrane

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25 Nov 2017 17:48 #58 by Nalick (TheBardAbides)
Replied by Nalick (TheBardAbides) on topic An Attempt to Not Deal With Demons
The prospect of our hand forced, reinforces the need for Dr. Darkwood's request herein that we find an alternative. We will resolve this through other means.

Heads high, Travance.


~Nalick Underhill

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