normal Subjects of Travance proposed contract

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21 Nov 2017 20:59 #31 by SlightlySaneBillliamm
SlightlySaneBillliamm replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
The Demons under Mother and Jailor will beholden to there masters while there. The only demons you will have to worry your pointy little ears about will be earth demons and Kalen. You are wrong in the fact that you all serve your barony. So follow your barons law above others. If you agree and the majority afree with that signature it is binding. If you break the contract then you doom all those who signed it but we are the only ones metaphysically bound so you mortals can break it at your own peril. Why are you acting so foolish in this endeavor.
Q

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21 Nov 2017 21:26 #32 by Mantel
Mantel replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
I've pointed out clear issues with the contract as you have posed it, ones that you are failing to respond to directly.

It would not constitute a breaking of the contract for you to act as I have described, under the current draft. I am merely asking that you revise.

I will reiterate that Travance as a whole has decided to make this matter of "democratic" nature, so that all of our voices may be heard as equal. Still, the Baron holds final say. He is one among one who can so bind us, and if anyone else attempts to bind us all to such a contract, we will not be able to enforce their decision, even though your Lords will still be bound upon signature to follow the Contract to the letter.

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21 Nov 2017 21:31 - 21 Nov 2017 21:33 #33 by SlightlySaneBillliamm
SlightlySaneBillliamm replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Noted. I will revise it once all points are made. The way to stop abyssal energies killing you is by attuning yourself to the plane. Which is very dangerous cause if you die there you die forever.

-Q

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Last Edit: 21 Nov 2017 21:33 by SlightlySaneBillliamm.

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21 Nov 2017 21:33 - 21 Nov 2017 21:34 #34 by Chris D
Chris D replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Oog Not brogan

Karl
If I might be so bold. Who is the heir apparent to the abyssal earth throne? If you can aid in cutting him from his power why not let the next in line take his throne and close the portal? Where as I am no great hero i am sure the town could successfully deal with those trapped outside the abyss.

Humbly
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Last Edit: 21 Nov 2017 21:34 by Chris D.

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21 Nov 2017 21:41 #35 by SlightlySaneBillliamm
SlightlySaneBillliamm replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
It doesn't work like that. It is a mantle taken through any means not passed down through successor. Though in most cases the Abyssal Legionaires over throw and take the Throne if they feel they can. Unfortunately Kalen's demon are devout to his power and strength. Currently with Kalen here there is no way to take his power back. Which is the true problem.
Q

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22 Nov 2017 23:53 #36 by Nalick
Nalick replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Karl,

Where were you when Alleander burned?


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23 Nov 2017 00:00 #37 by SlightlySaneBillliamm
SlightlySaneBillliamm replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Hiding and running in terror just like everyone else. I have been amongst you mortals so long and kept alive by doing what you do. I love this plane and want to stay here as long as possible. Keeping my head down and understanding you mortals is pretty great. Sorry for whatever happened to you mortals when Balfurous and Xualla went insane. I have alway been a lowly imp, just trying to survive and get by. So I don't know what you want from me. My existence is always tenuous at best. Everything is trying to kill us or control us. My existence is a constant struggle.

-Q

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25 Nov 2017 01:45 #38 by Liz
Liz replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
There are many feelings on both sides of this equation- as there should be. That being said, I have a few questions to ask of Q'aare'zl if I may.

For one, you state that being of this plane will make traversing in the Abyss to the Throne hazardous. Is this just because of the positive energy in our bodies or just because we are from the material plane? If the first is the case, would an undead have the same effect or no?

For the second, you implied that the Abyssal Legionnaires are devoted to Kalen and also mentioned that as part of this Contract, the Mother and the Jailor will arrange for them to be brought to Travance in places and times to hopefully be dealt with safely. You also stated that the mantle of Lord can only be transferred to another who is taking it. It will therefore be impossible to transfer that Mantle and Title to one of the Legionnaires? What if Kalen himself were to be persuaded to do so? Would that mean his permanent death?

Lastly, is this contract absolutely necessary? You stated in one of the writings above that you would be inclined to just work together if necessary but that you thought this course was best. Does that mean that you believe a verbal agreement would suffice instead of words that will bind every man, woman, and child to this-likely without their knowledge?

Respectfully,

Mae Fang

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25 Nov 2017 07:47 - 25 Nov 2017 07:48 #39 by SlightlySaneBillliamm
SlightlySaneBillliamm replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Creatures not native of the Abyss begin to be attacked by the chaotic energies and elemental effects. Only those native know how to avoid or control that power. I imagine your Undead would die further.

The transfer of power is generally via death and if any willing transfers of titles happen they need to happen in the Abyss at the Throne. I have never heard of a demon lord giving up their power by choice but it could work? Still needs to happen in the Abyss where the source is. Mother and Jailor will use their resources in the abyss side to get the other legionaires to you and also protect you in the Abyss from its detrimental effects.

The contract is 100% necessary to ensure your people don't outright betray and kill ours. It binds your people to the agreement and ensures both sides follow it. Atleast for us we must but your people can choose to break it if they so wish? Words are wind and holds less meaning to a group of "lieing" demons. I wouldn't break a contract with The Jailor or Mother if I were you. Your Travancian laws bind every man, woman, and child even if they don't know them. It specifically states "- Ignorance of the law is not an excuse from the law." I see no reason for that not to work for the contract.

Also if you fear breaching we can put a clause saying if a demon takes offensive action against anyone who is represented by the contract it is null and void for that demon? We can't blame you for defending yourselves.

-Q

"Slightly Sane Billliamm"

ooc: gene stern
Last Edit: 25 Nov 2017 07:48 by SlightlySaneBillliamm.
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25 Nov 2017 10:59 #40 by Kaiva
Kaiva replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
I'm willing to sign that contract, Q'aare'zl. I'm happy too. But saldy I don't speak for all of travance. I'm only one person, but whatever way this goes I'm so sorry for you. You stuck your neck out and I sincerely appreciate you putting in this effort to help us. I am your friend, and I wish you the best. Like I stated before, if you will not cause harm, or pain or suffering then please seek me out for protection. I will make sure you're not harmed. The same goes for anyone else.

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25 Nov 2017 11:44 #41 by Father Ephrem
Father Ephrem replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Q'aare'zl

Unanswered question of Mae Fang:
If Kalen willingly transferred his Abyssal power to one of his Legionnaires, would that result in Kalen's permanent death?

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27 Nov 2017 16:31 #42 by Nalick
Nalick replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Travance being a Barony of the greater Kingdom and the Kingdom based upon Valosian moral teachings, is there written assurance that only those of just authority, whose stations provide sufficient sway over the subjects here, may sign and bind us to the contract?


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27 Nov 2017 18:36 #43 by SlightlySaneBillliamm
SlightlySaneBillliamm replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
To Answer the Father's question, I have no idea. Kalen didn't let other demons visit.
I thought Valosian's can pray a contract is binding or something.
-Q

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27 Nov 2017 19:12 #44 by Nalick
Nalick replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
The affirmation I seek, is whether only one of noble station may sign the contract on behalf of the town, rather than a layman.


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27 Nov 2017 19:36 #45 by Father Ephrem
Father Ephrem replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Q'aare'zl, [erased but somewhat visible<<you miserable servant of the Abyss,>>]

It is true that a prayer to our Lord and God-King, Valos, can insure that each party agreeing to a contract will be obliged to follow it to the letter for at least one half day. However, you did not answer Father Nalick's question. Can there be written assurance, with an addendum or revision, that only those of proper authority are able to sign the contract?

After the first paragraph:
"The Abyssal Lord of Fire aka Mother, The Abyssal Lord of Ice aka Jailor and Travance which herein includes all Nobles of Kormyre, subjects and visiting nobility, commoners and laypersons from any land/time within the borders of the Barony during the terms of the contract, all have agreed to work together to return the Abyssal Lord of Earth aka Kalen Maitel to his proper throne in order to forestall any unbalance. This agreement describes their understandings and commitments to this collaborative effort."
Add:
"Only the proper civil authority of Travance can enter into this agreement. Any other who signs the contract will simply act as an individual and not oblige all Nobles of Kormyre, subjects and visiting nobility, commoners and laypersons from any land/time within the borders of the Barony to follow the terms of the contract.

And the line which states:
"All significant decisions regarding the collaboration will require agreement by all three collaborative partners."
Revised to:
"All significant decisions regarding the collaboration will require agreement by all three collaborative partners, which include the Abyssal Lord of Fire aka Mother, The Abyssal Lord of Ice aka Jailor, and the proper ruling civil authority of Travance or their proper legates."

Make these changes and the contract will be slightly more palatable.

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28 Nov 2017 01:03 #46 by SlightlySaneBillliamm
SlightlySaneBillliamm replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Sure buddy we can do that, though I am not miserable. I have carved out a nice existence for an ancient imp like myself. I make very large donations of that useless gold to all the gods churches. I will review all the requested changes and try to amend the contract so we can do this amicably.
Your friend,
Q'aare'zl

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28 Nov 2017 07:55 #47 by Father Ephrem
Father Ephrem replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Q'aare'zl

Would that I know how much and to whom you have given these "very large donations of that useless gold" I could see that your gold is safely returned to you from the coffers of my own Church.
Though I would not expect the truth out of you, please feel free to enlighten me with such information.

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28 Nov 2017 09:56 - 28 Nov 2017 09:56 #48 by Caelvan
Caelvan replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
**Not Caelvan**

I’d also like to know who you gave your donation to The Reaper to. As this is the first I’ve heard of it that I can recall.

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28 Nov 2017 10:12 #49 by Kaiva
Kaiva replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
Thank you for donating to whichever church you donated to, it is appreciated. :)

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28 Nov 2017 12:03 #50 by SlightlySaneBillliamm
SlightlySaneBillliamm replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
I have been here a very long time. Donated when I could or through others to do it for me. I have shared water in Amon'zod while learning of the death cults. Likely with your father's father. I have broken bread with monks of Valos. Shared ale in Calisvorin with Brazenites. So I don't remember who has the money or exactly how much. Also I don't want it returned. You are welcome.
Q

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28 Nov 2017 17:42 #51 by Nalick
Nalick replied the topic: Subjects of Travance proposed contract
With regard to lawful signature, there is nothing to review. Ours is a government of law and a binding inter-planar agreement needs to be authorized by proper authority. Without the amendments set forth by Father Ephrem, the proposed contract is more worthy of flint than quill.

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