normal On The Declaration of Rule

01 Nov 2018 16:23 #31 by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933)
Replied by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Aleister, When ye all have your minds made, Let me know. I'm all fra deliverin' th' response. I ha' a feelin' it will be th' same proposition I made some slavers this summer.

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01 Nov 2018 17:12 #32 by Chris D (Brogan)
Replied by Chris D (Brogan) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Lord Tartaros,
Would you have me attempt to contact the Sultan and find his stance on the matter. If these nobles plan to take lands with humans of any type in them he should be made aware. And allowed to prepare his response.

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01 Nov 2018 17:36 #33 by Tom P (Father Ridigan)
Replied by Tom P (Father Ridigan) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
We need not stop at humanity. Why should we assume this "Imperial Kormyre" will stop there.

If I remember correctly, the world's fair solidified alliances with several kingdoms, human and non human alike. As Silus Crone's apprentice, I met most of those delegates. Just say the word.

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01 Nov 2018 18:44 - 01 Nov 2018 19:20 #34 by Dennis Brand (Devin)
Replied by Dennis Brand (Devin) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Why should we assume anything at this point? There is so much infatuation with that words "Imperial" and "expansion" that this Declaration and those whose names are upon it are being vilified for nothing other than stating their general intent.

Expansion can come in a lot of different ways; it is not always a growing of borders or land grab. This expansion that is written of may be financial, cultural, diplomatic, or even internal. There is a lot of free & open land within the borders of Kormyre that the existing cities and villages can expand into. Travance his forever expanding from the Ports of Drega'mire to the highest peak of Pendarvin to the uncharted wood of Ostcliff.

The facts we know are this:
The Duke and his nobles want the fate of their kingdom to rest in their hands... much the same way the Travance does.
The Duke has a smattering of support from various Kormyrian nobility, most of whom are under his direct order... much the same way Travance does.
The Duke and his nobles have a questionably legitimate claim to the Throne... much the same way Travance does with Elijah. In fact, I'd even dare say the Duke's claim, should it be true, is stronger.
The Duke and his nobles are willing to fight for their cause... much the same way Travance is.

My point is that right now, until the next piece is in play, there is no difference between Vorllorn, Ravenhurst, and Travance.

- Dennis Brand

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01 Nov 2018 19:17 - 01 Nov 2018 19:18 #35 by Cara Easton (Rachaelelle)
Replied by Cara Easton (Rachaelelle) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
I concur with Master Brand. We’re all very quick to jump and assume this is a declaration of hostility, yet they have not declared any hostility upon us. They have the same concern over the state of their Kingdom as we do, but perhaps we are all being a bit rash. I do not intend to speak out of turn, but why do we get to presume we are right and they are wrong? How do we know how those on the other side of the rift feel about the status of our government. When was the last time we asked anyone besides ourselves how they feel about this?



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01 Nov 2018 21:02 #36 by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933)
Replied by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Squires Brand and Tartaros:

Some wisdom from a cantankerous war priest:

Kingdoms gain subjects through settlement and coercion. Empires gain subjects through force of arms. There is not an empire in this day and age that I am aware of that does not maintain itself through Subjugation or Oppression of one group or another. If those exist, no law made can be just. I intend no hostility, but the choice of words used cannot be ignored, and the various peoples have a right to be warned that there is a possibility that this could go badly. I have a duty to do so for my kin and my people.

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01 Nov 2018 21:16 - 01 Nov 2018 21:17 #37 by Nalick (TheBardAbides)
Replied by Nalick (TheBardAbides) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Dennis and Cara,

Imperial's plain meaning has clear implications. As we all know, literal Ages ago Kormyre was an empire and by their choice of word, they would return to such. There is nothing "new" about an imperial Kormyre and I would not for the world my homeland be so afflicted.

If we do not agree, if we do not send a clear signal, they will march against us. The threat may not be direct, but it is threatening and more than solely the royal throne.

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01 Nov 2018 22:30 #38 by Dennis Brand (Devin)
Replied by Dennis Brand (Devin) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Not a squire.

Empires and Kingdoms only differ in political hierarchy, all other differences aren't based in fact. You cannot judge what will happen now with what happened "literal Ages ago." Much has changed in thousands of years. The only other Empire regularly dealt with is Gaaldron, which begs the question: is the subjection throughout in their lands because of their form of government or because they are devout worshipers of Enax?

There is no threat of Travance being marched on by Kormyre. The Declaration clearly states force will be used to take Loez, which is the seat of Kormyrian power, and far from Travance. Why would they waste soldiers and gold on what they see as irrelevant to life in the Kingdom? It makes no strategic sense. Travance can easily take control of the Rift crossing and with the best of the Royal Navy docked in Drega'mire and loyal to Admiral Tartaros, they could not safely land soldiers on our shore.

Travance sent a clear signal first! It was something along the Count's paraphrased lines of "Whoever so dares to bring down the Kingdom of Kormyre, come to Travance and face me. For in this time of an empty throne, I am ruler." They are responding to Travance's own declaration. Clearly because they feel the Count will bring down the Kingdom of Kormyre. You cannot ignore the fact that this Imperial Kormyre will only be formed should the Count not relinquish control of Kormyre to the Duke and his allied nobles.

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01 Nov 2018 22:48 #39 by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933)
Replied by Donald MacFhionnlaigh (raidr0933) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Who is subjugated or oppressed in that Empire? is it the slaves? is it the goblins and orcs, who exist to serve the whims of the hobgoblins? Furthermore, expanding by force of arms- how many times in the past ten years has the Hobgoblin Empire attempted some scheme or used their army- yes, New Gaaldron counts- to attempt to conquer Travance or the kingdom as a whole?

His Grace never indicated that he was taking the throne for himself- merely verifying the claims. if his claim is legitimate, and his claim verifiable, why not go to Loez with paperwork backing his claim to be verified? As it is, his wording makes it sound like he wants to rule in a less than benevolent manner.

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01 Nov 2018 23:46 #40 by Django (Topgunwov)
Replied by Django (Topgunwov) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Ladies and Gentlemen,

I applaud the intelligent discourse I see being discussed on our stance on the subject of the Declaration, and I further applaud the willingness of so many fine Travancians to make a move to quell an uprising, whether it be through political contacts or simply offering their sword arm to the cause. However, I would remind all of us present here that these Nobles, particularly the Duke, did send a regiment of armed goblinoids and a spy posing as a goblinoid commander to attack the proper Saturday evening of feast last, therefore I would say that, barring any new proclamation on their part, they most likely do not like us, and furthermore took hostile action against us. Indeed it is beneficial for us to speak of the moral and political implications of our involvement, however let us not forget that action must be taken in retaliation to their offense.

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01 Nov 2018 23:57 #41 by Nalick (TheBardAbides)
Replied by Nalick (TheBardAbides) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Distance does not void Travance's status as a Barony of the Kingdom; we are as much part of Kormyre as all of the baronies within Loez.

You are correct that I cannot judge the Duke by the actions of his ancestors; however, I will judge him by his written word and lack of respect toward the principles upon which Kormyre was founded. Do what we say lest we breach the walls of your capital, are not the words of those who favor the words of any of the Light.

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02 Nov 2018 01:34 #42 by Liz (Liz)
Replied by Liz (Liz) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
With all due respect to everyone who has spoken and who have not,

I agree with Cara and Dennis. They have stated they have a grievance which they are more than allowed to have. The Count is not King, for all that we owe him our personal allegiance. Is the Duke of a higher standing than the Count? The Count did make the declaration. He did lie to them for 3 years- why should they trust him? We have, even though we have saved the world, gotten a reputation in the world. Why should they trust us? And my last question:

Why are you trying to take action without the word of the Count? It has been said that it is possible he is already dealing with this- we have no standing orders to make decisions of how to formally respond to this. Research must be done and orders then given before we alert other world leaders.

Patience is what I would counsel now- this is not something that can be dealt with swiftly. Not only for our sake but the world is also watching.

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02 Nov 2018 02:26 #43 by Caelvan (Caelvan)
Replied by Caelvan (Caelvan) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
I would advise to heed the words written by Dennis and Cara.

Fearing expansion, that may never come, can make things worse for all involved. If Travance wants to get involved with an issue before it is even a definite issue then that is fine and within your right to do so. However, until it is certain that these individuals will start conquering neighboring nations, it is entirely speculation. Cause fear into the masses and you will have more issues to worry about than this Duke trying to take the throne.

I've met Lord Pyre and he seemed to be an honorable man. I wouldn't expect him to back this plan unless it was for the good of the land and people he presides over.

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02 Nov 2018 11:27 #44 by Wili ()
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I can check this paper for forgery, if you still need someone. I have a keen eye.

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02 Nov 2018 11:53 #45 by Nalick (TheBardAbides)
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For those keen eyes to spot anything amiss aside from a signatory's signature, we would need a sample of the Duke's writing, in either of the current provinces he resides over or from Glangsdale or Talenthal, where he oversaw up until relatively recently.

Perhaps it is divine providence that Glangsdale also happens to be the home of the Church, that they can shed some Light on this.

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02 Nov 2018 12:59 #46 by Verrill Lebastion (Wellby)
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Lets consider the options,

Could be a ruse. Kormyrian nobles know what would happen if they came to blows with Travancian nobles. Duke's name keeps coming up in secret attacks against Travance over the last several months. Never heard a hereditary noble more anxiously state their primacy:"Distant blood relative". Who emphasizes the weakness of their claim?

If it is in fact the courts of Kormyre attempting to seize the reins alone- then this will be over quickly. I suspect Gaalderon has plenty to do with this as their divine mandate is to subjugate all before Enax. Doubt they'd forget the word of their living God over a piece of paper. At best they are biding their time while leveraging the mainland nobles. Maybe they are trying to reclaim their errant nationhood.

Just Some Thoughts,

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02 Nov 2018 17:31 #47 by Hayley Virgil (HayleyAnnV)
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My, I wasn't expecting to return from the Underdark and find ourselves in the midst of such a fiasco. Never a dull moment.

It seems, right now, that we're in need of more information. I will have to see about finding someone capable of portaling me to Ravenhurst. I have been overdue for a trip home, I suppose. Since neither of my parents have signed their names upon this declaration, I can only hope that they do, in fact, stand against the Duke's plans. I truly pray that they do not lack love for the Kormyrian military, otherwise this will be quite the... awkward trip.

I shall learn what I can and return in a few day's time. Be safe out there.

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02 Nov 2018 18:50 #48 by Ephrem (bamore62)
Replied by Ephrem (bamore62) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
To my fellow Travancians,

Since there has been an offer of a solution along a particular "theological" line, I too would offer words and thoughts - hopefully clear and rational thoughts - upon the present situation in Kormyre. I can help to offer solutions at a later time, but for now I will ask Travance to keep these points in mind while seeking solutions:

We have turmoil in the Kingdom. There is a possibility of civil war. It will be the innocent and the vulnerable, along with the common soldier, who will suffer the most in such conflict. Let us keep that in mind when seeking solutions.
Any military conflict
a) should be entered upon only to correct a grave and public evil,
b) should be used for a just cause and solely for that purpose (for example: increasing economic gain or political power would not be a just reason to wage war; defense of a rightful and just ruler would be),
c) should be declared by a competent authority that does not itself repress justice,
d) should clearly show that the just benefits of the military action must be proportionally greater than the inevitable evils that result from such action, and
e) should only come about after all peaceful and viable alternatives are exhausted, then it should be done swiftly and with great purpose and courage (as the King of Light would do himself).

We have on either side of this conflict a Count and a Duke, both making claim to determine the rightful successor to the throne. Truth is the most precious item necessary to find a solution - hopefully a peaceful solution. Making a decision on a course of action is easy; it is in finding all the information necessary to make that decision where we find our greatest challenge. Many Travancians posting on the Inn's boards have promised to seek information and truth; this is good, this is what we need. I myself will do the same.

So far we have evidence of intent based upon the words of this circulated document and the past actions of those involved. Much needs to be weighed, but must be done quickly before conflict arises. If conflict does arise, let not the goal be tainted by evil means, and let it be done with a swift and firm hand.

My apologies if I have stated the obvious; it is not meant to insult the intelligence of any readers of this post. May all our actions done for the good of our Kingdom be guided by justice and virtue.

Yours in Light,

Father Ephrem
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02 Nov 2018 19:55 #49 by Dennis Brand (Devin)
Replied by Dennis Brand (Devin) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
For those wondering about the Kormyrian nobles on the other side of the Rift who have not signed, I have it on good authority that there are many loyal to the Count and ready to defend Loez should a move be made to take the county through military force.

- Dennis

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03 Nov 2018 16:33 - 03 Nov 2018 17:12 #50 by Swyft (agentswift)
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Threat should be met with threat. The do-it-or-else doesn't really work for Travance. To think that we're supposed to read a piece of paper and suddenly submit to the demands of this duke who deems his blood more special than all the work we've done! All the blood we've spilled! All the losses we've suffered? Just kick the count to the curb and give it up and bend to imperial regime? Ha!
We've paid our dues time after time. We've done our sentences, but committed no crimes. As for mistakes... yeah, we've made a few. We've had our share of sand kicked in our faces, but we've come through. We are the champions, my friends. And we'll keep on fighting until the end. We are the champions. We. Are. The. Champions. So no time for losers, because WE are the champions of this world.

Good luck, Kormyrian army. You'll need it.


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03 Nov 2018 22:48 #51 by Kleidin (Kleidin)
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Well said, Dame Swift.

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04 Nov 2018 00:48 - 04 Nov 2018 01:08 #52 by Dennis Brand (Devin)
Replied by Dennis Brand (Devin) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Kormyre existed long before Travance was founded, and Travance is only one of eight provinces in the Kingdom. So what of all the blood spilled and losses suffered by Kormyre and it’s people over countless years?

Vorllorne is tasked with keeping the Kingdom safe from the Wychwood and all the creatures that dwell within. Do you think that hasn’t come at a cost?
Glangsdale shares a border with Gaaldron. What do you think came with years of war with the greenskins?
Talenthal has to deal with raiding pirates from Coast Haven. How many Kormyrian dead do you think lie at the bottom of Anteries Sea?
What of the thousands that died during the Demon Wars? Men, women, and children. Do you think they just hid saying “Don’t worry. Travance will save us?” No! There were out there fighting, surviving, against a foe of untold number, with their kitchen knives, pitchforks, and mining picks. Yes, Travance ended the war, but did not fight in the only battles.

Do you think this Duke will come to Travance, leading his soldiers into battle, so he can be captured and/or killed and all this will be done? No! If war does break out over this Declaration, who do you think will be fighting it? Common soldiers from across the 8 Baronies. Men and women who fought against demons and marched through the Chaos Wastes, shields and swords drawn ready to die for one another will now have to die because of one another. Can you live with the deaths of thousands on your conscious when you had a chance to stop it?

Kormyre is in turmoil, on the brink of a civil war that will tear the Kingdom apart and all you can say is “What about Travance?” You should be ashamed of yourself.

- Dennis Brand of Glangsdale

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04 Nov 2018 07:40 - 04 Nov 2018 07:44 #53 by Swyft (agentswift)
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Oh it would be you, wouldn't it?
You are barking up the wrong tree, Mr. Brand, to think that I would feel shame in bringing glory and tribute to God in Her own chosen domain. My shame would lie in if I didn't. Do not use that compassion line with me. War is not kind. War is cruel. It is vicious. It is pain and loss and suffering... and IT IS THE WAY OF THIS WORLD. It is the only way the beings who come to impose their force and ideas on us understand. They come for our blood and we shed theirs back, ten fold in kind. It is our way. It has always been our way. And through our suffering, we gather strength, resilience and power.

Should you want to bend the knee to imperial rule, feel free. See how long you keep your head for expressing the way you feel about someone with a title declared more important than your name and vastly more important than your opinions, then.

I, for one, will not stand to be subjugated by those weaker than us, those who do not know us, those who do not respect us. Nor will I allow those in my charge to be subjugated. If we are the champions chosen to stand against God-Knows-What every time something goes awry in the world, then I think we deserve credit and respect, as does the Count. And if we are not given that, then we demand it in the only way we know how. IA AGUARA!

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04 Nov 2018 08:50 - 04 Nov 2018 08:57 #54 by Ephrem (bamore62)
Replied by Ephrem (bamore62) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
Dennis Brand of Glangsdale,

It is true what you say. Others in our Kingdom have shed their blood in the Demon Wars. We know for a fact that it was the Sanctus Luminarium, the stronghold of our High Pontiff, that held its own and provided a bastion of strength as it lay under siege by demons. We know for a fact that the aid of such Travancian Templars as Aldric and Brogan, along with his Red Lions, led the crusade to free the Pontiff from such siege and so free all of Glangsdale from the demon incursion. Women and men of all the Kingdom - even beyond our Kingdom - fought, sacrificed, and selflessly shed their blood for the protection of the innocent and the suffering. Such virtue must be extolled.

I am curious, though, Dennis of Glangsdale, what your Pontiff has to say about the legality of claims regarding these recent activities in the west of the Kingdom. Being of Glangsdale, you would have opportunity to know firsthand, no? You would also know that since the Demon Wars the Church of Light has been looked upon as the source of stability and government in Glangsdale, as there does not seem to be any ruling Baron of Glangsdale currently. I would hope that there would be no person of Glangsdale who, by defending their position, would curry favor from upstarts in order to be promised a Barony. So, Dennis Brand of Glangsdale, it would be proper presently to meet and discuss exactly what the Church of Light might determine is the just and legal means to end this potential conflict.

Sincerely,
written from Glangsdale,

Father Ephrem
Primus of the Church of Light in Travance
Oracle of Valos and Zealot of the Holy Light
Et Cor Valos in Terra

OOG: Bryan Amore
Last edit: 04 Nov 2018 08:57 by Ephrem (bamore62). Reason: italics purposefully placed
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04 Nov 2018 09:05 #55 by Sindarion (Steven SA)
Replied by Sindarion (Steven SA) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
I can tell that teatime is going to be quite tense this upcoming feast.

~ Knight Morgan "Sindarion" Sinclair
Vagabond Harper

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04 Nov 2018 11:23 #56 by Dennis Brand (Devin)
Replied by Dennis Brand (Devin) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
You seem to mistake my call for neutrality in an uncertain time as acceptance of this Duke's claims when the truth couldn't be further. I have always, and will always, stand for the Kingdom of Kormyre and it's prosperity.

It appears now that the time for uncertainly is over. Given the letter from the Count posted by Squire Odette, the Duke has made his move by attacking Loez and taking cities and villages by force. This regrettably, but necessarily, means war. Many will die and the innocent will suffer. I hope you're happy, because I for one will lament each and every life lost unnecessarily due to the actions of short-sighted people.

- Dennis

ig: Dennis Brand | oog: Devin G., marshal

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04 Nov 2018 14:50 #57 by Ephrem (bamore62)
Replied by Ephrem (bamore62) on topic On The Declaration of Rule
I have just returned back to the Barony and have read the news from Squire Odette.

Nay, I would never rejoice in any life lost in the ravages of war, quite the contrary. However, the blame is to be placed upon the treasonous and not on those to whom you have deemed short-sightedness. It has been the choice of the treasonous to bring this war to us. Our response will be to end it as swiftly as possible.

Yours in Light,

Father Ephrem
Primus of the Church of Light in Travance
Oracle of Valos and Zealot of the Holy Light
Et Cor Valos in Terra

OOG: Bryan Amore
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